Mark Bilk attacks genuine S11 researchers

HHQ- gatekeeper for Judaism at information underground

2008-03-15T17:54:00.000-07:00

HHQ, gatekeeper for Judaism at information underground

Fighting super-criminals- Exposing their crimes

I recently tried to start a discussion on how traditional Judaism relates to the plans for the New World Order at the Information underground forum.

All of the posts involved are contained in the file “Coffinman walks from The information underground.doc”.

What happened was that HHQ stormed in as gatekeeper and slammed the gates shut on the discussion.

I was accused of “persistent and aggravated nature of your pursuance of your personal and divisive agenda.” and “promoting and instigating dissension through deliberate manipulation of facts.”

These are serious allegations which I will address here.

My only actions after the “first and last warning” from HHQ was to answer him and post the warning and answer in the relevant threads so that folks on the forum knew what had happened.

The next thing I knew I had been banned and could not access the board any more.

Here is my reply to HHQ, which he banned me for:

I disagree with your judgement.
You accuse me of:

QUOTE

deliberate manipulation of facts

.....which is actually the antithesis of what I stand for.
Also.....
It is apparent from my last post that I was basically refusing to deepen the discussion here, but giving reasons, as another member had raised a subject.
I had thought it was clear that I had accepted your moderator's decision.
However you need not worry about me any more, I will not post here again, other than to post my warning and reply (in the 3 relevant threads) so that others are aware of why I have stopped posting.

It seems that not only had I raised a subject that HHQ did not want to be discussed, but also that he did not want any attention drawn to that fact.

So I was accused firstly of “persistent and aggravated nature of your pursuance of your personal and divisive agenda.”.

And secondly of “promoting and instigating dissension through deliberate manipulation of facts.”

Well people who are fighting against gatekeepers have to have persistence otherwise they will just be made to shut up. As to the “aggravated nature” of that persistence I fail to see how HHQ felt it was “aggravated”. I was making my points clearly, respectfully and without malice. I did not purport to know the answers to the questions that I was raising, I was saying that this was a subject that needed to be discussed. It seems that arguing for the discussion of possibly the most important issue in the World, to Jews and Goy alike was seen by HHQ as a hostile act. He also felt that such a pursuance was personal rather than objective.

Yes it is a fact that not all people who could be defined as “Jewish” are a part of a dastardly World plot.

But it is also a fact that many of them are.

In fact, such is the secrecy within Judaism that it is only due to those “Jews” who oppose the totalitarianism of Judaism that we know much of what we do.

The publication “Book - Jewish History by Israel Shahak 1994.pdf”, contained in the torrent folder is an excellent example.

In the book, the author states:

“Without a discussion of the prevalent Jewish attitudes to non-Jews, even

the concept of Israel as 'a Jewish state', as Israel formally defines itself,

cannot be understood. The widespread misconception that Israel, even

without considering its regime in the Occupied Territories, is a true democracy

arises from the refusal to confront the significance of the term 'a Jewish state'

for non-Jews. In my view, Israel as a Jewish state constitutes a danger not

only to itself and its inhabitants, but to all Jews and to all other peoples and

states in the Middle East and beyond. I also consider that other Middle

Eastern states or entities which define themselves as 'Arab' or 'Muslim', like

the Israeli self-definition as being 'Jewish', likewise constitute a danger.

However, while this danger is widely discussed, the danger inherent in the

Jewish character of the State of Israel is not……..

The influence on 'Jewish ideology' on many Jews will be stronger the more

it is hidden from public discussion. Such discussion will, it is hoped, lead

people take the same attitude towards Jewish chauvinism and the contempt

displayed by so many Jews towards non-Jews (which will be documented

below) as that commonly taken towards antisemitism and all other forms of

xenophobia, chauvinism and racism. It is justly assumed that only the full

exposition, not only of antisemitism, but also of its historical roots, can be the

basis of struggle against it. Likewise I am assuming that only the full

exposition of Jewish chauvinism and religious fanaticism can be the basis of

struggle against those phenomena. This is especially true today when,

contrary to the situation prevailing fifty or sixty years ago, the political

influence of Jewish chauvinism and religious fanaticism is much greater than

that of antisemitism. But there is also another important consideration. I

strongly believe that antisemitism and Jewish chauvinism can only be fought

simultaneously.”

HHQ opposed this outlook entirely. He described it as a “divisive agenda”.

I will agree with the term divisive agenda because if there are enemies of truth hidden within the truth movement, and they are exposed, then they are cut away from us, like rotten wood is cut away. This practice was once described as “driving wedges”, which I was accused of when exposing Judy Wood as a fraud. My reply was that “Where irreconcilable differences exist, then wedges must be driven”.

It seems that for HHQ, political unity is more important than truth.

As for “promoting and instigating dissension through deliberate manipulation of facts.”, Isn’t “promoting and instigating dissension” against corrupt leadership what the struggle for freedom and democracy is supposedly about?

But the worst smear that HHQ laid on me was to accuse me of “deliberate manipulation of facts.”

I will state that that was an outright lie and smear from HHQ.

Perhaps if there are idiots that will read his pronouncements without looking at the subject matter themselves they might believe him.

HHQ will be totally unable to demonstrate where I exercised “deliberate manipulation of facts.” He used an outright lie to smear me and justify banning me from the forum.

The fact that he banned me shows that he did not want to have to answer further, even though I had told him that I would not be posting to the board any more.

HHQ is not only a gatekeeper, but a coward, afraid of having to answer simple logic on this most important of all issues.

If I were simply wrong, and he had the right analysis, then he would have used the thread to demonstrate that and thereby educate those that read the thread.

So what is it that HHQ is gatekeeping for?

Well HHQ presents as an arch “anti-Zionist” and claims that his fight is against a small group of criminals, called “Zionists” that control the World economy and have created Israel. Outside of this criminal group, the rest of World Jewry is an abused population that is used by the “Zionists” to achieve their goals.

Well there is another outlook to consider.

It has become apparent to me that those who call themselves “anti-Zionists” for the most part allege that Zionism is the result of a collaboration by a “group of criminals” and does not actually reflect on Judaism. They then refuse to discuss “The Jewish question” and label those that do as “divisive” or “anti-Semetic”. Well that is not the case. There is manipulation afoot and those who spend time and energy researching it would at some point like to arrive at an understanding of what is going on.

These “anti-Zionists” also remove the important identity of Israel as a JEWISH STATE by constantly referring to it as a ZIONIST STATE.

No!

Zionism wishes to create Israel as a Jewish state, and Israel IS that JEWISH STATE.

I will give you another excerpt from Jewish History by Israel Shahak, which I urge everybody to read:

The principle of Israel as 'a Jewish state' was supremely important to Israeli

politicians from the inception of the state and was inculcated into the Jewish

population by all conceivable ways. When, in the early 1980s, a tiny minority

of Israeli Jews emerged which opposed this concept, a Constitutional Law

(that is, a law overriding provisions of other laws, which cannot be revoked

except by a special procedure) was passed in 1985 by an enormous majority

of the Knesset.

By this law no party whose program openly opposes the principle of 'a

Jewish state' or proposes to change it by democratic means, is allowed to

participate in the elections to the Knesset. I myself strongly oppose this

constitutional principle. The legal consequence for me is that I cannot belong,

in the state of which I am a citizen, to a party having principles with which I

would agree and which is allowed to participate in Knesset elections. Even

this example shows that the State of Israel is not a democracy due to the

application of a Jewish ideology directed against all non-Jews and those Jews

who oppose this ideology. But the danger which this dominant ideology

represents is not limited to domestic affairs. It also influences Israeli foreign

policies. This danger will continue to grow, as long as two currently operating

developments are being strengthened: the increase in the Jewish character of

Israel and the increase in its power, particularly in nuclear power. Another

ominous factor is that Israeli influence in the USA political establishment is

also increasing. Hence accurate information about Judaism, and especially

about the treatment of non-Jews by Israel, is now not only important, but

politically vital as well.

Let me begin with the official Israeli definition of the term 'Jewish', illustrating

the crucial difference between Israel as 'a Jewish state' and the majority of

other states. By this official definition, Israel 'belongs' to persons who are

defined by the Israeli authorities as 'Jewish', irrespective of where they live,

and to them alone. On the other hand, Israel doesn't officially 'belong' to its

non-Jewish citizens, whose status is considered even officially as inferior.

This means in practice that if members of a Peruvian tribe are converted to

Judaism, and thus regarded as Jewish, they are entitled at once to become

Israeli citizens and benefit from the approximately 70 per cent of the West

Bank land (and the 92 per cent of the area of Israel proper), officially

designated only for the benefit of Jews. All non-Jews ( not only all

Palestinians) are prohibited from benefiting from those lands. (The prohibition

applies even to Israeli Arabs who served in the Israeli army and reached a

high rank.) The case involving Peruvian converts to Judaism actually occurred

a few years ago. The newly-created Jews were settled in the West Bank, near

Nablus, on land from which non-Jews are officially excluded. All Israeli

governments are taking enormous political risks, including the risk of war, so

that such settlements, composed exclusively of persons who are defined as

'Jewish' (and not 'Israeli' as most of the media mendaciously claims) would be

subject to only 'Jewish' authority.

I suspect that the Jews of the USA or of Britain would regard it as

antisemitic if Christians would propose that the USA or the United Kingdom

should become a 'Christian state', belonging only to citizens officially defined

as 'Christians'. The consequence of such doctrine is that Jews converting to

Christianity would become full citizens because of their conversion. It should

be recalled that the benefits of conversions are well known to Jews from their

own history. When the Christian and the Islamic states used to discriminate

against all persons not belonging to the religion of the state, including the

Jews, the discrimination against Jews was at once removed by their

conversion. But a non-Jew discriminated against by the State of Israel will

cease to be so treated the moment he or she converts to Judaism. This simply

shows that the same kind of exclusivity that is regarded by a majority of the

diaspora Jews as antisemitic is regarded by the majority of all Jews as

Jewish. To oppose both antisemitism and Jewish chauvinism is widely

regarded among Jews as a 'self-hatred', a concept which I regard as

nonsensical.

So to separate the issues of Zionism and Judaism is wrong.

Zionism has created a Jewish state.

That has been it’s material role.

Now a brief note here:

There are those that will say that the whole of Judaism was invented by an elite caste in the very beginning, and has been used by them to achieve their goals, which are to end in World domination, and that the ordinary Jews are merely pawns in the game. Well perhaps that may be, but it is an entirely separate issue from that of the beliefs of Judaism itself. If the goals of Judaism are malevolent towards all non-Jews in the World, then those that embrace those beliefs that demand those goals are necessarily malevolent towards all other people.

So which Jews are benign, and which ones are malevolent?

Contained in the torrent is a video file called “Mosiach the creed.flv”. The original poster of that video attached the following note:

Moshiach - The Creed.

"I believe with perfect faith in the coming of the moshiach, and though he may

tarry, still I await him every day." - Principle 12 of Rambam's Thirteen Principles of Faith.

The main track of this DVD NTSC (other tracks are present) is a fascinating

presentation by ordained Rabbi Mordechai, who kindly shares with us the

understandings and goals of what appears to be : Rabbinic Judaism.

At the end of each session, Rabbi Mordechai tells us to "pray in unison for the coming of MOSHIACH, the real jewish messiah".

Moschiach, the long awaited Jewish messiah, is described by jewfaq.org as follows:

_ "The word "moshiach" does not mean "savior". The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought."

_ "Belief in the eventual coming of the moshiach is a basic and fundamental part of traditional Judaism."

_ "In the Shemoneh Esrei prayer, recited three times daily, we pray for all of

the elements of the coming of the moshiach : ingathering of the exiles..."

_ "The moshiach will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other

supernatural being."

_ "The moshiach will be a great political leader."

_ "The moshiach will be a great military leader, who will win battles for

Israel."

_ "The moshiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem. HE WILL ESTABLISH A GOVERNMENT IN ISRAEL THAT WILL BE THE

CENTER OF ALL WORLD GOVERNMENT."

Some researchers assert that those beliefs and understandings play a key role in shaping the course of our world today (...WWI, WWII, 9-11, iraq, Lebanon, Iran, "War On Terror"...etc).

Another group seldom talked about are the Christian-Zionists. They selfishly believe that the sooner the planet is turned to a global stage of chaos and death (WWIII), the sooner "Jesus will come back and take them away to heaven" (i.e. : The Rapture). The Christian-Zionists and Churches are fully lending their moral and material support to Moshiach's minions.

Educating The Amalekites...One Goy at a Time.

Note : If the Jewish People believe in the coming of a messiah and are waiting

for him, it is their right. BUT, if the researchers who have studied the subject are right, the world of the gentiles is being turned up side down for the only reason to set the world stage for the appearance of Moshiach.

Why should the gentiles be dragged into wars, poverty, misery, financial crisis, stress, terrorism, grief, pain, hunger, death, hate, police surveillance

societies...etc, so that the Jewish Messianic age can come to fruition, where a jewish messiah will rule the world and rule over the gentiles from Jerusalem ?

The most striking parts of that document being the quotes from Jewfaq.org:

"Belief in the eventual coming of the moshiach is a basic and fundamental part of traditional Judaism."

_ "In the Shemoneh Esrei prayer, recited three times daily, we pray for all of

the elements of the coming of the moshiach.

And:

“HE WILL ESTABLISH A GOVERNMENT IN ISRAEL THAT WILL BE THE

CENTER OF ALL WORLD GOVERNMENT."

A “basic and fundamental part of traditional Judaism.”?

To be malevolent towards all other nations?

"In the Shemoneh Esrei prayer, recited three times daily, we pray for all of

the elements of the coming of the moshiach.”

It would appear that all those that recite this prayer are praying for malevolence to all gentiles and the establishment of Jewish World rule.

It would appear to me that to be a “benevolent Jew”, one would have to renounce the tenets of traditional Judaism.

I had hoped to start the discussion, where those Jews who belonged to the forum whom HHQ did not want upsetting would be able to contribute freely, so that this issue could be discussed, however, as you have seen that discussion was quashed by HHQ.

Common ground, AKA THE GREAT COVER-UP

2007-07-25T21:16:00.000-07:00

http://www.911researchers.com/node/871

So what did all the agents of deception that have been outed here have in common?

Well firstly they all supported Wood's UNPROVEN DEW hypothesis.
What would be the point in that?
Maybe to cover up the destruction of building by other methods?
Given the incredible things associated with those destructions it seems that the cover-up would be to disguise the fact that NUCLEAR WEAPONS WERE IN FACT USED IN NEW YORK.

Something else was the discussion of apparent black-ops vehicles.
These are pointed to in videos that we know are not untouched originals.
The vehicles are alleged to prove the involvement of the American Black military.
If that was a lie, what would be it's purpose?
Well, it covers-up the possibility of the september 11 attacks being perpetrated by an outside force.

Oh, but we must remember that Grable was happy to consider 911 to be an attack from Russia using beam weapons.
Well why not consider that it could have been an attack from an outside force using NUCLEAR WEAPONS?
NUCLEAR WEAPONS THAT WERE NOT MANUFACTURED IN THE USA!!!!

The idea of black-ops vehicles firing a missile also cover-up the possibility of a roof-launched missile having being used.

I think that THE WHOLE INFILTRATION OF OUR COMMUNITY WAS TO COVER UP THE ABOVE.

Controlled Demolitions and Common Sense

2006-12-10T10:17:00.000-08:00

10 December 2006

Controlled Demolitions and Common Sense

By theWebfairy
correct URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Steven_E._Jones

Many people call those who understand physics "conspiracy theorists". Steel framed buildings are over-designed. Thinking that one could collapse at freefall speed from anything other than a controlled demolition is absurd. In order for a collapse at free fall speed, the underlying floors need to be removed before the floors above. It's something called Conservation of Momentum, and anyone not familiar with this should educate themselves before making a fool of themselves using the CT term again.

Former Clemson Univ Mechanical Engineering Professor Judy Wood already PROVED controlled demolitions, and her paper "A Refutation of the Official Collapse Theory" has not been refuted. (Google it, but I can't post the link because wikipedia blacklisted it.)

Also look at her paper "Star Wars Beam Weapon". Contrary to Steven Jones "thermate", the Star Wars Beam Weapon theory takes into account ALL of the evidence. Anyone having even the tiniest bit of scientific reasoning skills should know that a hypothesis is only valid if it accounts for ALL of the evidence. I encourage all to carefully look through her papers and try to understand the information her reveals.

For instance, she says the towers did not collapse, but were blown up from from the top down with a high-energy device.

Mount St Helens - Erupting Volcano - Massive Energy Release: [1]

Nevada Desert - Nuclear Blast - Massive Energy Release: [2]

WTC - Controlled Demolition or Impact Damage/Fires? - Massive Energy Release: [3] [4]

Some of her evidence is:

1. Concrete pulverized to powder in a way that cannot be accounted in a standard controlled demolition. (i.e. more than 50% of samples under 100 microns)

2. Videos show steel spire turning to dust and trickling down.

3. Photographs of Ground Zero showing no signs of enough concrete and steel to account for two 110 story towers.

4. Downtown Manhattan not flooded. (If one million tons of towers collapsed on the slurry wall / bathtub, it would have broken through and flooded New York.)

5. Toasted cars over half a mile from Ground Zero. (Check out the numerous pictures in her "Star Wars" paper)

6. Round holes in the roof of WTC 5

7. a large vertical chunk missing from WTC 6

8. seismic readings too low

That's just a small sampling!!

Controlled demolitions at the WTC has been scientifically proven *long ago*, as the government's version defies basic laws of physics. At this point it's just a matter of figuring out what method was used for the demolition.

BTW, is everyone aware that GWB gave a speech (broadcast live on FOX) where he talks about Muslims planting bombs in the buildings?

As prominent conservative Paul Craig Roberts says: "How could government complicity be kept a secret? It can be kept a secret, because so many Americans are scientifically ignorant and emotionally weak. They are incapable of realizing the contradiction in the government’s claim that the WTC buildings “pancaked” at free fall speed, and they are emotionally incapable of confronting the evil of the Bush regime." http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14566.htm

Kings 32 11:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Coffinman responds...

2006-11-25T18:49:00.000-08:00

This article by Mark Bilk was written to put a spell on all “truthlings” so that they will ignore all reason and attack the genuine researchers who are getting to the truth because they have been told we are “bad”.

Such a vicious compound assault needs to be dealt with point by point, as the piece contains much disinformation (something he accuses the real researchers of).

Mark Bilk will see this and we hope he will respond on this blog.

“The "space beam" lie is just the latest disinformation from
the Gerard Holmgren/Nico Haupt/Rosalee "Webfairy" Grable/Morgan
Reynolds/etc gang. Reynolds was previously pushing the
No-WTC-Planes disinfo, using Holmgren's bogus arguments almost
verbatim, so we know that he is totally dirty. “

Where do you find any evidence to back up your statement that Holmgren’s arguments are bogus?

For one, nobody will even try to dispute the physics that deny the possibility of planes entering cleanly into buildings without breaking apart of deflecting.

These concepts were so damaging to your bid to hide the truth from people that the controllers at 911 blogger had me blocked as a damage-limitation measure.

Now the I.P. of every computer I have ever logged into my YouTube account from appears to be blocked from 911blogger.

That to me suggests that the intelligence services are working with you.

There is a now-famous exchange between Holmgren and John Gold where Gold absolutely fails to say what he believes to have happened on S11.

It can be found in this excellent article that exposes the drive by the section that you represent within the movement to have valid research with proven findings driven out of the forum of discussion, so that the real truth about the events of that day will never be made known:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~holmgren/slithering.html

”The space beam claims are easily disproved, and if Jim Fetzer
doesn't stop endorsing them by saying that they're worth
investigating and that their proponents are "researchers",
he will wreck the Scholars For 9-11 Truth group as a force for
waking up the public, by destroying the group's reputation.
If Fetzer persists in that, then it is vital for Steven Jones
to take over leadership of the group.
The space beam disinfo website:
http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/StarWarsBeam1.html”

How are the space beams easily disproved?

How have you accounted for the spire turning to dust?

It is on video.

There is no collapse of a solid structure, just solid steel turning to dust.

Scalar technology can easily do this.

You can watch a clip demonstrating the use of this technology here:

And you can read a technical explanation of the way scalar interference causes these effects here:

http://www.skepticfiles.org/crank/tesla1.htm

”Contrary to the disinfo gang's claims, the holes in WTC5&6 were
simply made by girders that fell hundreds of feet from WTC1&2 and
crashed through the roof and several floors. The holes then acted
as chimneys for the flames of the building fires, causing them to
become rounded.”

The hole in WTC6 is particularly massive. If it had been made by girders the girders would be piled up inside the building, and that would not explain the absence of structure within the damaged area. Fire can not burn steel and concrete so that there is only a hole left where the fire was.

The edges of the beams from the circumference of the hole in WTC6 show effects in the steel at the edges that are not consistent with being in a fire.

Do you suppose that the steel in this building melted?

Also a hole can not act as a chimney unless there is somewhere for the air to enter it from.

”The groups of burnt cars were the result of chain-reaction car fires
-- one burned and its gas tank blew up and ignited cars nearby, etc.
This is a common occurrence according to fireman Russell Pickering
of www.pentagonresearch.com .“

No, this does not explain so many things seen in the photos of vehicles from ground zero.

There are cars that are burned only on top and front, a whole car lot full of them in fact.

There are cars burned only at the front.

There are wheels that have only the steel bands from the tyres left, and no sign of burned rubber.

There are vehicles with all their windows blown out yet no other apparent damage.

You are trying to simplify the evidence offered.

This is GROSS MISREPRISENTATION.

”The iron content of the WTC dust was about 0.5 percent, exactly
the amount normally found in concrete, so there was no mysterious
disintegration of the steel columns. Thus the white dust seen
coming off a few of the columns was just the attached asbestos,
drywall plaster, or concrete.

http://www.ehponline.org/members/2003/5930/5930.html
http://www.ehponline.org/members/2003/5930/tab3.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_cement”

I disagree. There is just too much of it for a start, it's streaming off the steel, evenly.

People can look at the photo and see what THEY think. It’s a pity that all the evidence was destroyed, because I’m not sure that I have any confidence in that report at all.

It’s authors are not independent.

Why should it be any better that the 911 commission report?

I would like to see an account of how much steel was shipped to where and see how much there actually was after the event.

Maybe we can get some dust and have it looked at ourselves.

”Microwave or infrared energy beams capable of making holes in the
buildings, igniting cars, and pulverizing the concrete, would have
burned people in the street and lit up the smoke with electrical
discharges. That never happened. The buildings were demolished
by the explosives heard and seen by firemen and caught on the videos.“

Who has mentioned infra-red or microwave beams?

Scalar waves are not the same thing.

And how do you know that scalar waves or microwaves would produce electrical discharges?

Film of Hutchison’s experiments do not show such phenomena.

Here is the same clip of his work again:

And there were explosions.

The basements were blown out of both towers and the outer walls were cut into bits, but that does not account for the pulverization of the concrete to NANODUST, the disintegration of the spire or the MASSIVE HOLE in WTC6.

And I don’t know that people didn’t get burned. The MSM has certainly not presented all of the facts from 911 that it should have.

And after the collapse the site was as guarded as a military base, so many things could have been hidden. It is sheer luck that we have the evidence we do.

Do you have an explanation for the complete pulverization of the concrete to nanodust, including the stone chips within it?

Scalar weapons CAN explain this.

”The concrete in the floor pans was lightweight foamed concrete,
so it was easily pulverized into dust by the explosives and the
impact with the ground. “

Concrete does not turn to dust when it falls to the ground, from any height, and explosives will not turn all of an amount of concrete to dust, it will blow it to BITS.

There were NO BITS OF CONCRETE AT GROUND ZERO.

And all the paper was untouched!

”The Holmgren gang's space beam disinformation is designed to
discredit and defeat the 9-11 truth movement, just like their
previous claims of No-WTC-Planes, holograms, UFO orbs, scalar
waves, flocks of UAVs, fusion bombs without fission triggers,
and video fakery extending to amateur videos and still photos.
All completely impossible, and all completely unnecessary to
account for the evidence.”

All completely impossible?

Now you really are pushing opinion as if it were established fact!

You say WTC no-planes is impossible, whereas the undisputed simple physics analysis that address the issue says that it is impossible for a plane to vanish straight and cleanly into a building. That is the only technical contribution on this issue, and to contradict it you must refute the assertions it contains. Otherwise you are going against undisputed scientific reasoning.

Holograms were considered and are no longer thought to have been used, but holographic projection is not an impossibility.

You can see a simple demonstration here:

Scalar technology is kept secret but you can get the science at this link I gave previously:

http://www.skepticfiles.org/crank/tesla1.htm

And you can learn about the technology here also:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3179563077694383295&q=bearden

“Flocks of UAVs”.

Well, there are LOADS of little orb-things that are definitely there in LOADS of S11 videos.

Here’s a good clip with some in:

Anyone who has spent any time researching UFOs will recognize them immediately, they look remarkably like the “orbs” that have been filmed by even air force pilots:

They were there for some reason, and nobody is suggesting “space aliens” like you keep inferring, so black-ops vehicles of some description would seem to be a good explanation of what they were.

Fusion bombs?

They were considered, maybe still are.

How do you know a fusion bomb could not be set off by a beam?

Are you working on cutting edge black-ops projects?

Do you know the limitations of black technology?!

And the video fakery extending to all amateur video and photos:

Well if they show a plane that wasn’t there then yes!

None of them actually show a plane that looks real anyway, many of them contradict each other, LOADS have got the same voice actors on (here’s 3):

And some, including the “live” CNN and Fox shots show an intact nosecone on the “exit” side of the tower where there was no hole for it to have gone through:

The analysis for how this blunder happened is hilarious, it’s here:

http://911logic.blogspot.com/

”It's all the same principle: bring in pseudoscientific nonsense
that some people ignorant of science and technology will believe,
and insist over and over in lots of websites and forums that it
was used in 9-11. That provides the perfect basis for government
and mainstream media to attack the 9-11 truth movement as "crazy
conspiracy theorists" by scientifically refuting the disinformation
that the gang has associated with the real 9-11 research. This has
already been done in some media attacks.”

Well if the media can scientifically disprove the no-planes theory why wasn’t “Crash physics for everyone” refuted by the many learned members of your group when I posted it at 911blogger?

Of any of the other well-researched evidence that has been put forward?

You accuse us of pseudo-science when in fact the no-plane science is excellent and none of your ilk will discuss the detail of it because it is correct.

Yes, the media will call people crazy for pointing to the truth, but then you are right along side them on that aren’t you?

Of course the media will attack you less if you are no threat.

”The disinfo gang's attacks on David Ray Griffin, Steven Jones,
and the makers of the Loose Change videos, who have been the most
successful in bringing the truth to the public, are the final
proof of their motives.”

People have pointed out correctly that Griffin embraces contradictory elements to his hypothesis, and therefore can be used as a reference to back up mutually exclusive arguments.

What the hell kind of theory is that, where “everything fits”?

Except the actual facts, of course.

Professor Jones is kicking non-compliers out of his organization and is ready to take over the truthling movement.

There will be no more critical discussion then.

”The Holmgren-Haupt-Webfairy-Reynolds-etc gang is pure evil.
One or more of them are knowingly working for the U.S. and/or
Israeli government, and the rest are deluded fools. There is
no other possible explanation for what they've been doing.

The disinfo gang is extremely destructive to the effort to educate
the public that the 9-11 attacks were done by the government and
not by "Arab terrorists". That education may be the only thing
that can stop the Fascist takeover of the U.S., the Middle East,
and the rest of the world. The 9-11 false-flag operation was done
to provide the U.S., Israeli, and British governments with false
"evidence" of massive "terrorism", so it could be used as the
pretext for abrogation of the Constitution and for genocidal
(and profitable) wars of conquest. The ultimate protection racket.”

Totally misleading.

Of course we know the government did it, it’s the media involvement that you are fighting so desperately to hide.

The media is a psy-ops toll that is used to mind-control the public.

Exposing their complicity in the S11 atrocities could destroy their power.

The most damning aspect exposing media complicity is the feeding of fake news to the public as “live broadcast”.

”The 9-11 truth effort is the key to defeating the myth of
"terrorism", and thus to defeating world Fascism. We must not
permit the Holmgren-Haupt-Webfairy-Reynolds disinformation gang
to sabotage that effort. They do not deserve a second chance
or the benefit of the doubt. They have lied too many times and
slandered the real 9-11 researchers over and over again.“

This is an attempt to frighten people into thinking that they should not take the trouble to examine any evidence that we may present.

You need to do this because the real truth can destroy what you are trying to do.

”No-WTC-Planes, holograms, UFO orbs, scalar waves, flocks of UAVs,
fusion bombs without fission triggers, video fakery of every
video and photo taken by amateurs, and now energy beams from space.
The Holmgren gang are not researchers!”

You mentioned all those before.

Now you say we are not researchers.

I am not a researcher, I am a “media man”.

The researchers among us have made great strides on explaining the crimes of S11 and the research is excellent.

To deny this work it’s status as research you have either not read any of it or you are lying outright.

In either case it’s libelous.

”The gang are vicious lying propagandists and we must keep reminding
ourselves of that. They are not 9-11 researchers; their claim
that they are is another of their Big Lies. We think that no one
would tell such a big lie, because we ourselves wouldn't, so that
motivates us to believe them. That's what they're relying on.
They _are_ lying. They are _not_ researchers!”

This means “Don’t believe them, even if everything they say makes sense to you, put your hands over your ears and run away from them”.

”The gang are working for the Fascists. We must fight them hard.
If you see their lies in a forum, refute them with the truth.
If you operate a mailing list, group, or forum that's seen by
the general public, and they show up on it, kick them off and
keep them off.”

An obvious call to have our evidence excluded from the debate.

You say “refute them with the truth”.

What do you mean?

Do you mean “repeat a mantra without addressing the points, and then block them”?

Gerard Holmgren tried desperately to get John Gold to say what the truth is, but the one called Gold would not say what the truth of S11 was in his view.

Can you tell us now please what you think the “truth” about S11 was?

A good summary of what we think is given here:

http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Eholmgren/manufactured.html

”If the gang succeeds in discrediting the 9-11 truth effort, and the
Fascists succeed, and you end up in Guantanamo, or "renditioned" to
some foreign country to be tortured, or DEAD, it will be too late!

Fight the Holmgren-Haupt-Webfairy-Reynolds disinformation gang now!
Mark”

Once again you frighten people that we are the boogey man that will get them put into gas chambers or onto guillotines at the end of the day.

You make a call to arms for people to oppose us to save their very existence.

You are the boogey man.

You are trying to burn the books.

Silence the critical thinkers.

People should beware of you and your gang of spooks.